throttle body adjustment and then no start

socalfiver · Post by **socalfiver** » Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:22 am

You said it runs better if you lean on the top of the AFM?

I'd recommend adding a ground wire between the AFM body and the engine block or body of the car. It's possible that you have a faulty ground to the AFM. Adding a supplemental ground wire can improve driveability in some cases.

alotawatts · Post by **alotawatts** » Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:48 pm

socalfiver wrote:You said it runs better if you lean on the top of the AFM?

Maybe you are getting a better seal for the rubber air boot...?

CBradio · Post by **CBradio** » Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:11 pm

-I put the points back in and still no start.
-This time I'm not getting any spark from the coil.
-Wires read fine to ignition coil, but I realize I need to check out the ICU.

Problem is, I can't find it.

Do they all look the same?
Where is this box?

{edit}{edit} I found what I thought was the ICU, but appears to be a
"relay for speed switch"

In any event, it FRIED inside. Seems the pins made contact with the case.

Is this the "speed switch" for my EGR system?
The one the FAQ says I don't need?
If so, I took everything else out from the EGR system, but could not find the mysterious speed switch.... do I need this box??

It seems I never had an Ignition Control Unit for this model or the car is running without one somehow.

Confused!!!!
==============================
1977 530i {actually 12/76}

CBradio · Post by **CBradio** » Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:29 pm

....... still baffled. I don't think I need that speed switch after all and I don't think my 530i has a ignition control unit.

So today I had some friends over, there is spark, I smell fuel.
I tried everything I think, turning the distributor, making sure the firing order was correct, moving it 180 degrees out, and still no start.

maybe the engine is flooded but the plugs are dry.
When I pull the ECU cable out to burn off any excess gas, its not starting.

I am getting spark... buts its yellow-orange.
My friends insists its enough to get it at least started.
Maybe they're wrong??

Perhaps I killed the coil somehow??
{I did leave the key once in the ignition after the car sputtered and died..}

We did have something interesting happen today:
twice we managed to get it started for a few seconds, it BACKFIRED through the intake, causing all those vacuum hose-plugs left from the removal of the EGR equipment to SHOOT out!

Thanks again everybody for their help here.
I will write when its figured out.

BAFFLED. (@_@)

CBradio · Post by **CBradio** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:44 pm

.... the saga continues even though I shouldn't be working on this car.
I think the problem lies in the ignition system.

I have noticed a weak orange spark, that is intermittent at best.

Is there a way to bench test the coil ?

I read in the manual 1.7 - 2.1 is the target resistance for the primary coil, and I'm reading 2.1 on the dot.

I have tested the resistance of the secondary coil too, it is about 14,000 ohms..........
but I can't find the target #'s in any literature regarding my coil.

Does anybody know the target numbers for the secondary coil?

If I am overdoing it with these posts, please let me know!

Falkenberg · Post by **Falkenberg** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:59 am

Are you sure that you've set up the ignition timing right? Have you ever done this kind of work before with good results?
Sorry for asking

but if you're new you might be overlooking something when setting up the ignition timing.

Did you set the points to 0.4mm? Did you check the timing with a control light? Is the rotor on the cyl 1 mark when cyl 1 is on tdc in its compression stroke? Is the order of the ignition leads correct?

Secondary coil value seems ok to me - from memory.

CBradio · Post by **CBradio** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:42 am

No apologies necessary- I can use all the help I can get.
I AM new at this!

The order of the ignition leads are correct, and I have the rotor at TDC pointing to plug lead #1, the order is correct....

I am NOT however sure if I am on the correct TDC so looks like I will have to pull the valve cover or play around a bit with the leads.... all the things I've learned this week!

I only drove the car once when I picked it up, since then its been sitting in the driveway. It will be so sweet when I finally get it started again.

Thanks for the help!!

CBradio · Post by **CBradio** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:57 am

here is a newbie question........ {maybe a dumb one, or maybe the reason I am getting it all wrong}

when everybody says "cylinder #1" and "rotor should be pointing at #1"

is that my #1 from this order:
153624 {as it is on the valve cover}
or is it the Euro version 624153?

OR is it that the cylinders have their own numbers, i.e.
{firewall} 6-5-4-3-2-1 {radiator} and that numbers on the valve cover only tell me how I should set up the firing order, but NOT the "name" of the cylinder?

or is that the cylinders are in themselves numbered as on the valve cover?

I'm starting to think I made a real newbie mistake!
I have been looking at it like this:
1-5-3-6-2-4 is what the cylinders are, and I just match them up on the distributor cap in that order. oh my! I'm starting to realize my mistake.

CBradio · Post by **CBradio** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:01 am

oh boy

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
http://blog.bavauto.com/918/bmw-6-cyl-cylinder-order/

cylinder order is 6-5-4-3-2-1
not as my Fiat loving friend declared, "like on the valve cover, 153624"

newbie mistake!! I will try to start it up again, when the neighbors are awake.

Blaise · Post by **Blaise** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:55 pm

Don't give up, you will get it started.

Falkenberg · Post by **Falkenberg** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:53 am

Yes, cylinder 1 as near the radiator, and from there you increment. You should end up with number 6 at the firewall

The ignition order, however, is different, and those are the numbers listed on the valve cover. On the distributor you need to connect the leads from the cylinders, in the ignition order, starting with 1, which should go where the cyl. 1 mark at the distributor is. And yes, check if cyl. 1 is at compression TDC when you align the signs.

CBradio · Post by **CBradio** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:27 pm

lining the leads right didn't help. I rotated the distributor every which way too, didn't help.

and now I'm getting spark (a little orangey but a spark still)

And I think I'm getting fuel because I smell gas when I crank the engine.

I feel like there may have been one problem before, but now that I've been touching everything maybe there are more.

Unfortunately I can't work on this any more this week- its been a huge distraction, however fun in its own way, {still keeping me up at night}
.....I'm going to have to close the hood for now.

Question: that tube that comes out of the BOTTOM of the throttle body and goes into the valve cover {not the retard tube, the short elbow tube}
what is that tube?

Also, maybe this will be some clue to help me:
before it was not starting this is what happened:
it would start up, the RPMs would jump up and down at idle a little,
and then the car would sputter and die.

Blaise · Post by **Blaise** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:45 pm

CBradio wrote:lining the leads right didn't help. I rotated the distributor every which way too, didn't help.

and now I'm getting spark (a little orangey but a spark still)

And I think I'm getting fuel because I smell gas when I crank the engine.

I feel like there may have been one problem before, but now that I've been touching everything maybe there are more.

Unfortunately I can't work on this any more this week- its been a huge distraction, however fun in its own way, {still keeping me up at night}
.....I'm going to have to close the hood for now.

Question: that tube that comes out of the BOTTOM of the throttle body and goes into the valve cover {not the retard tube, the short elbow tube}
what is that tube?

Also, maybe this will be some clue to help me:
before it was not starting this is what happened:
it would start up, the RPMs would jump up and down at idle a little,
and then the car would sputter and die.

Sorry that we cannot help you more. This is a hard thing to diagnose with a keyboard.

Are you now sure that you have the spark plug wires hooked up correctly?

Smelling fuel where? Just smelling fuel in the engine compartment does not tell you that you are getting fuel at the injectors. I would check that it comes out into the return line.

alotawatts · Post by **alotawatts** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:25 pm

Are you now sure that you have the spark plug wires hooked up correctly?

+1

I made the mistake of having them sequentially on the dist.cap

Mike W. · Post by **Mike W.** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:37 pm

You have no ICU, that is only on 528i's with electronic ignition. Buy new points and condenser and install them. Don't be surprised if you don't get more than 5K out of new ones, it's just the way it is. Time it as best you can to TDC. Give it a little more advance if you can for starters. Make sure the distributor rotor is pointed at what is the #1 spark plug cable, it may or may not be the notch in the distributor. Pull the valve cover to make sure.

Points and condenser ignition is simple, if not reliable or long lasting. It's comprised of points, condenser (which is just another name for a capacitor) and a coil. Coils rarely fail, condensers don't fail often. Points are the weak link and wear out in 5-10K, often barely 5K. You get a spark when the points open, not close.