E12 engine conversions (SR20, 1JZ, 2JZ etc)

bizz · Post by **bizz** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:31 am

Hi all,
I've just joined up & have been trawling through the site, some great builds & information floating around!

I have a 78' 520i & have been considering replacing the engine & drivetrain with something newer.

Just wondering if anyone's fitted any late model jap engines in the E12? (hear the purists cringe!)
I know that SR20 is common into E30's but can't find a lot of info around E12's.

The reason i bring it up is that i can purchase a written off S14 with a lovely stock SR20 turbo, for not much outlay.
Just wondering how viable this is & if it's been done. Obviously custom mounts required, but additionally there may be certain clearance issues someone may have experienced...

Open to alternative opinions & suggestions

GripGreg · Post by **GripGreg** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 4:36 am

Here's my opinion: don't you DARE use another derogatory word like that on this website again!!
If you don't have the respect to use normal language, you can get the fuck off this website!! And I'm not Asian!
That's my opinion! Greg

DEMIURGE · Post by **DEMIURGE** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:04 am

bizz wrote:Just wondering if anyone's fitted any late model jap engines in the E12? (hear the purists cringe!)
I know that SR20 is common into E30's but can't find a lot of info around E12's.

I haven't heard if any e12 owner made a NISSAN's engine swap.
I really see no sence. This is not an e30. OK, the SR20 engine fitted in S14 car originally has 217 HP (with turbo). Some of the horses in that engine you found, will be lame or dead. And just for your information - many years ago Paul Rosche (of BMW) made a 2.0 liter engine with 1400+ HP. There are a LOT of BMW engines - normally aspirated or FI with more than 217 HP. You can fit every BMW engine from 4 to 12 cylinder. The ready and prepared decisions for e12 are very rare thing.
You have to "own" an experience of doing similar swaps (or some friends or friendly company) - otherwise - don't start such a project.

DEMIURGE · Post by **DEMIURGE** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 4:07 pm

bizz wrote:The reason i bring it up is that i can purchase a written off S14 with a lovely stock SR20 turbo, for not much outlay.

I have to apologize to all readers here, I won't take up any more of your time with this, but because of mentioning "S14", e30 and besides everything - it is a BMW forum - so it is normally to think of BMW engines, not of Japanese cars and engines.
So, here is a very brief survey of the NORMALLY ASPIRATED S14 BMW engine:

The E30 M3 is the BMW Motorsport-developed version of the E30 3 Series. Its S14 four-cylinder powerplant is a further development of the M10 unit and was chosen by BMW because of its compact dimensions. The S14 engine powered the E30 M3 from 1986 to 1991.
The E30 M3's S14 engine was designed for racing applications and is therefore compact and high-revving. It combines the basic four-cylinder block from the M10 family with a four-valve head derived from the one used on the six-cylinder M88 and S38 motors. Special features of this engine include individual throttle plates for each cylinder, machined intake and exhaust ports, and a crankshaft with eight counterweights. Like the M88 and S38, the S14 does not have hydraulic lifters, and thus requires periodic valve adjustments.
The S14 engine developed 200 bhp, but a tuned variant with 220 bhp was created in 1989 in a small production run with the designation S14 EVO (for Evolution).
In Italy, BMW produced an 2.0-liter S14 version since cars with engines over 2.0 liters were subject to high taxes. To achieve 2.0 liters, the stroke was shortened to 72.6 mm.
In 1990, 600 vehicles were built with the S14 EVO2 engine. With a 95.5 mm bore and 87 mm stroke, the engine produced 238 bhp and competed successfully in the DTM German Touring Car Championships.

Original text - http://www.usautoparts.net/bmw/engines/s14.htm

bizz · Post by **bizz** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 8:59 pm

GripGreg wrote:Here's my opinion: don't you DARE use another derogatory word like that on this website again!!
If you don't have the respect to use normal language, you can get the fuck off this website!! And I'm not Asian!
That's my opinion! Greg

I can't tell if you're serious or having a dig. I suppose i did ask for opinions, rookie error.

DEMIURGE wrote: I haven't heard if any e12 owner made a NISSAN's engine swap.
I really see no sence. This is not an e30. OK, the SR20 engine fitted in S14 car originally has 217 HP (with turbo). Some of the horses in that engine you found, will be lame or dead. And just for your information - many years ago Paul Rosche (of BMW) made a 2.0 liter engine with 1400+ HP. There are a LOT of BMW engines - normally aspirated or FI with more than 217 HP. You can fit every BMW engine from 4 to 12 cylinder. The ready and prepared decisions for e12 are very rare thing.
You have to "own" an experience of doing similar swaps (or some friends or friendly company) - otherwise - don't start such a project.

Thanks for your insight. Being brand new to the E12/bmw scene i'm just seeing what's been done & what's viable.

I appreciate that the BMW engines can make good power, however cost is prohibitive here (in australia) for aftermarket parts & even replacement engines. My biggest concern is spending big $'s on an engine that is already 30 years old.

GripGreg · Post by **GripGreg** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:42 am

You can't tell if I'm serious or not?? You CAN'T? Do take my post at face value and do not try to change it around! Consider it a slap in your face. Can you tell if I'm serious now?! Don't speak/post/live like a BIGOT!!
Got It?!! Re-read your post to find the offensive word, since you're so dense!
Yes, I'm as opinionated as you!

bizz · Post by **bizz** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 2:38 am

Greg, you have taken what i said way out of context - there's no way I am racist or said it with racist intentions. I am quite offended.

In the context of mixing manufacturer parts, indeed an automotive 'purist' may cringe. Pull your head in.

DEMIURGE · Post by **DEMIURGE** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 6:26 am

bizz wrote:I appreciate that the BMW engines can make good power, however cost is prohibitive here (in australia) for aftermarket parts & even replacement engines. My biggest concern is spending big $'s on an engine that is already 30 years old.

If you don't want to spend big money - personally for me, the best way is to find 3.5 M30 engine with some proper transmission (Getrag 265 will be OK).
If the M30 engine is from an e28/e23/second generation e24 - it is direct fitment, but you have to find an oil pan and oil pump from e12 M30 engine.
You have to search for a "new" driveshaft (or the first part only, with proper balancing). If the M30 engine would be from an e32/e34/last e24 - you have to change the engine mounts (you can make a search in this forum for this topic), the issue with the oil pan and pump, along with the driveshaft remains.
If you have some luck - you can find a S38 engine (B36 or B38) - than the case is similar to the e34 (and you'll have good amount of HP).
In your case - with 520 e12, you have to think for better brakes and suspension, for LSD and some other things.
If S38 variant is expensive for you - than you can use 3.5 M30 with chip tunning and get something around 240 HP or even change the engine management to MS for example. If this power is not enough - you can add turbo and increase the power to 350-400 HP at the cost of 5000 USD, using only new parts. If you want to go further - it is realistic to achieve 700 HP, but the money will be much bigger.
Please, choose the most suitable for you variant (the desired money limit) and then we can discuss it.

GripGreg · Post by **GripGreg** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 1:49 pm

You quote the word "purist". Re-read your post again! Find the offense word using the fact that I said I'm not Asian.

grumpsjr · Post by **grumpsjr** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:11 pm

I'll apologize in advance if I muddy the waters further.

Greg, I'm not clear on the offensive word either, but I'm guessing it's probably "jap.".I'm guessing that bizz simply meant this as shorthand for "Japanese" rather than in derogatory intent, particularly because he references a '78 520 which almost certainly means he is not from the US. And he may be of a different generation that doesn't understand the connotation implied by use of the term "jap".

Can you clarify, specifically, what was offensive so that bizz will be able to understand where he ran afoul? And then we can get back to talking about e12s.

For my part, bizz, welcome, and I would generally echo DEMIURGEs comment about transplanting a BMW motor. In a past life I owned a couple of cars with SR20s and loved them, but there are many easier and more viable BMW options for a transplant, I believe.

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 7, 2011, at 11:49, "GripGreg" <gripgreg@aol.com (gripgreg@aol.com)> wrote:

You quote the word "purist". Re-read your post again! Find the offense word using the fact that I said I'm not Asian.

Post generated using Mail2Forum (http://www.mail2forum.com)

DEMIURGE · Post by **DEMIURGE** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:18 am

Backing Brian's words:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jap#cite_note-12
And a quotation from there:
"In Singapore and Hong Kong, the term is used freely as a contraction of the adjective "Japanese" rather than as a derogatory term. The Brazilian equivalent japa is too non-derogatory (although widely considered a slang) and sometimes used in mass media and by Japanese Brazilian population itself. The Australian news service Asia Pulse also uses the term. In 1970, the Japanese fashion designer Kenzo Takada opened the "Jungle Jap" boutique in Paris."
As bizz wrote - he is from Australia...
Sorry for the prolongation of the offtopic...

bizz · Post by **bizz** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:01 am

Thanks guys, apologies for any misunderstandings regarding the phrasing of my original post - there was no racist intent

DEMIURGE wrote: If S38 variant is expensive for you - than you can use 3.5 M30 with chip tunning and get something around 240 HP or even change the engine management to MS for example. If this power is not enough - you can add turbo and increase the power to 350-400 HP at the cost of 5000 USD, using only new parts. If you want to go further - it is realistic to achieve 700 HP, but the money will be much bigger.

Thanks for sharing - it gives me plenty to think about. A B36/8 in stock trim sounds quite enticing & would be more than enough power for daily duties.
I'll have to investigate what i can source here now that i have a starting point. It's strange starting from scratch with a new manufacturer - ask me anything about toyota engine variants!

Thanks for the welcome guys.

GripGreg · Post by **GripGreg** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:30 pm

Brian; thanx for clarifying things! I guess I'm still stuck in the '60's with
love-ins & flower-power.

I hope I'm not too sensitive; I'm very flexible & forgiving. At least I try.

Demiurge; thanx to you for broadening my personal life style horizons.
I guess I'm not quite as up to date as I should be.

Bizz; since I've been brought into the 21st century, finally, I must apologize for my reactions & old school thinking!

It's wierd how, with time, sometimes the meaning of some words can change.
You have good questions & WELCOME!
Back to E12 stuf!

Jeff Dennis · Post by **Jeff Dennis** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:51 pm

Bizz,
There is a car lurking in CA somewhere with a Chevrolet LS1 conversion try a google search for it. Some of the guys here may know the story of the conversion.

tom · Post by **tom** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 6:46 am

wow ! gripgreg needs holidays

I haven't understood all !

well ! for Bizz ....

if you want to swap your engine ..... an Sr20 is not a good choice .....
4 cylinders are good for smallest car ...

for an e12 ..... please install un big straight 6 ..... or V8

i'm sure you can fit a V8 from an holden or something like that ....

and no jap(anese) engine in a german car , thanks

Firstfives.org