E12 CAMBER ADJUSTMENT

[GripGreg]

I'm guessing our 5 series trailing arm bushings are interchangeable with my Buster, being an E12 chassis?

Any opinions?

I would like to adjust the negative camber on Buster before I buy new tires.
He looks sexy from behind, but tires are not cheap.
The Goodyear F-1's with a tread wear rating of 200, that came with him when I bought him have worn on the inside only.
I should've switched sides, but, that's another story.
I'm lining up some Michelin Pilot Sports with a rating of 500; much better.
I don't need super soft to wear out super fast.

IE has an adjustable camber situation for the rear, but, it needs to be welded. More money, more money!

Would bushings help,,,at all?

I don't want polyurethane because of squeaking possibilities.
Bavauto has what I think I need? $100 for both sides; two per side.

Is lemfoerder a better product?
Thanx in advance,,,,Greg

[T.Hanson]

While you wait for expert opinions,...

Tires: Wildcard is years in use. Rule seems to be 7, to 10, if stored indoors, with careful inspection of sidewalls for cracks. I.e., factory recommendations for general thumb safety, vs. all my own exceptions for budget.

Wear, I agree, unless switched side to side halfway, bald inside tread. Not good when that happens. Is it too late to switch worn tread to the outside ? How worn, how hard do you go around cloverleafs, or have spasms of neighborhood naughty ?

One of my 528i's has the (front) top shock bolt mounting holes filed to adjust camber. A dab mickey mouse, but it works for a few degrees. I've seen camber plates for sale, same idea, for racing, less mickey mouse.

Bushings : After thirty five years, replacing any or all probably von't hoit. The hard part for me is not seeing any huge problems (cracks) while seeing what it takes to remove, install new. Pipes, rods, pullers, elephant rental,...

Finally, I have a friend who likes to remind me I'll rust out, blow my tranny in less than ten years, so, go from there.

[wkohler]

Lemförder probably made the factory parts. They've lasted this long, so...

The issue that causes the tires to wear on the inside isn't so much the camber, but also the toe-in that results from the trailing arm system. As negative camber increases, toe in increases as well, so while the tires aren't lined up with the trajectory of the car, they're going to drag on the tarmac and wear more quickly. A camber/toe adjustment kit will allow for eccentric attachment of the trailing arms. The K-Mac bushings are an option but if you talk to an alignment person, they don't like them because they don't hold the adjustment or are just very tough to adjust.

[Pierre]

I will assume you are talking about the rear since you made a comment about "sexy from the rear" and you mentioned trailing arms.


Is the car lowered? If so, you will get additional camber and toe. Replacing the bushing will not solve the problem.Worn bushing result in more play and less precise steering, not increased camber.

Even not lowered, BMWs do have camber built in from the factory to help with handling and stability, at the expense of some tire wear.

What to do depends on what you want, what is important, how you drive the car and how much you drive the car, and if it's lowered.

Is it a commuter, lots of miles? Lowered? Get the camber kit.
Occasional commuter, fun cruiser? Stock.
Spirited driving? (Assuming it is lowered.) Urethane.

Only you can decide where to draw the line between the 3 options.

Cheers.

[Mike W.]

The issue that causes the tires to wear on the inside isn't so much the camber, but also the toe-in that results from the trailing arm system.

As negative camber increases, toe in increases as well, so while the tires aren't lined up with the trajectory of the car, they're going to drag on the tarmac and wear more quickly. A camber/toe adjustment kit will allow for eccentric attachment of the trailing arms. The K-Mac bushings are an option but if you talk to an alignment person, they don't like them because they don't hold the adjustment or are just very tough to adjust.

Bingo. It's a very common misconception but camber has minimal amount of wear on tires. A guy at work with an E39 kept griping about tire wear and camber and I kept telling him it wasn't the camber, it was cheap tires and toe. On my wife's E39 wagon, sport, which means lowered from the factory, it has plenty of negative camber and tires are now at 63K on VR tires. Yeah, it will need them soon, but that ought to say something. You may need new bushings because they allow tires to toe out, but not because of camber.

Think about it this way, with camber they're still rolling, if the toe is off they're scrubbing.

[GripGreg]

Thanx to all you guys! Tom, Chris, Pierre & Mike.

Tom; I'm getting older too, food for thought.

Pierre; Buster is a spirited driven cruiser. Not many miles daily. I switch between Rosallina & Buster;
plus, I'm retired and glad to have made it this far! So, not much mileage on either car.
And he's at stock height. One of the selling points was that the PO seemed to be a stock kinda guy.

Chris & Mike; thanx for the Lemforder info. Jose`, on the BigCoupe forum may have my E12 bushings.
If so, I'll buy them & make a decision sooner than later.
Thanx for the toe-in info.

I didn't rotate the tires to the other side 'cause when I rotated the fronts, the tire changer ripped open the sidewalls
because the tires were at least 8 years old & I was forced into buying new Michelins at a time when I didn't want to.
So, I'm forced again to buy some tires when I don't want to! DUH!?
Again thanx,,,,Greg

[bizz]

Is there much toe adjustment available with the stock rear geometry, or does one need to purchase aftermarket bits n bobs?

I have an absurd amount of rear camber. I love it!

[Mike W.]

Is there much toe adjustment available with the stock rear geometry, or does one need to purchase aftermarket bits n bobs?

I have an absurd amount of rear camber. I love it!

There is no toe adjustment with stock parts. Nor camber or anything else.

[GripGreg]

Pierre & everyone;

Thanx for the response. I forgot to mention, Buster appears to be a stock car, all around, including not being lowered.
This was part of his appeal to me.
The rear tires are 245/50X16 Goodyear F-1's, as were the front. Not low profile.

I asked JohninSimi why I seemed to get a whip effect at the front when straightening from a spirited turn.
The front tires were the same size, so, he said it's probably because of the tires not being low profile.
I understood exactly what he meant. Too much sidewall. The PO wasn't a racer & this was another reason why I was attracted to the situation.
You can tell a general personality in conversation. At least I nailed it this time.
Now, I found a tire shop to rotate & balance the rears left & right by taking them off the wheels to continue the correct rotational direction.
So, I have just a little while longer to wait for the right size Michelin Pilot Sport A/S tires to come down the pipe.

I also learned that Michelin tends to go to the limit within the tire size range. I think from someone here?
So, I may need the next size narrower than the F-1's, since I had to have the left rear fender well ground down so the F-1 wouldn't scrape itself away.
I guess I weigh just a little more than Charlie, huh?(PO)
John was right in saying he can confirm that I weigh more than two hunnert!! But, at least I've lost the 'holiday weight'!
Seriously, I did. Now, I'm back to just being overweight!
But, I can still see myself below the belly, if you know what I mean.
Anyway,,,Thanx,,,,Greg

Ps,,I'm waiting for Jose` on FirstFives to let me know if he found his rear bushings. After all, Buster is E12 based.

PPS,,Tom, I don't have spasms in the neighborhood, but on the clover leafs it can be a different story. I do have my favorite 2nd gear curly-cues!

[T.Hanson]

Only for geezer war story input, I drove karts for years before anything large, with suspension. Therefore, no concept of unsprung, or sprung weight, nothin."

I may have posted previously my exciting introduction to suspension, learning what happens when all the weight is on the outside tires, shocks, springs and begins to slide.

A very exciting lesson riding from the track, backwards through the golf course, over the rubber pit cones, seeing the stands out the front windscreen, all in the process of learning what happens if you let off too much and unload the tires that were gripping.

Made a bad smell, too.

[GripGreg]

Good geezer story, Tom! I always like hearing from you.
Greg

[GripGreg]

Tom
You said your front your front top shock mounts are filed to off-set some camber?
Will that work for my E12 rear shock mounts??
How accurate does the alteration have to be.
What exactly did you file?
Hopefully,,,,Greg

[KenB]

You'd need to be able to adjust the trailing arms through eccentric bushings.

Like so:

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-3542- ... QgodwSEAsw

AND perhaps this:

http://www.iemotorsport.com/bmw/Z3-susp ... -lock.html

Which carries this instruction and recommendation:

"Note: Initial installation requires removal of rear subframe, grinding and welding of brackets to the subframe. These plates are Zinc-plated, this plating should be ground off of the weld-zone prior to welding.

I highly recommend using this kit in conjunction with the Camber Kit. When adjusting the camber on a semi-trailing arm the toe will also be affected."

Save your file for your nails.

KenB

[GripGreg]

Okay, okay. I get it. This is the only way to lose my negative camber.
I just don't want to spend the money, so, I'll carry on
with Buster lookin' sexy & being a little more expensive.
Thanx to everyone